The main reason is Urobuchi gave an interview where he said that the girls in Madoka were carried away by their “hubris” and “self-righteousness” and compared them to the Taliban (WHAT the fuck). So that pretty much flings any idea the show was trying to say something even vaguely feminist out the window- this guy literally things young girls should be punished for wanting things. women shouldn’t have desires. REVOLUTIONARY concept.
U can still read feminist things into the show for yourself of course (as I did initially), but knowing the opposite was intended puts a damper on it for me.
And also knowing that makes me view the show in a different light. I used to be okay with it because it seemed to reconstruct the genre a bit at the end, with Madoka restoring hope etc. but…
It really is just 11 straight episodes of little girls suffering, intended for a male audience, with some sort of attempt to smooth it all over at the end so the viewer doesn’t feel guilty and it’s still implied they all die or whatever. That’s kind of creepy, when you think about it. Especially when you consider that this is basically taking a genre meant to empower young girls and making it about little girls being tortured and manipulated. There are some genres that could use deconstruction- the magical girl genre isn’t one of them, at least not deconstructed in a way that’s targetted toward men. If it’s deconstructed, I think it should be deconstructed for a FEMALE AUDIENCE, you know, the actual main consumers of the genre. I mean, thinking about it, Madoka doesn’t really count as a deconstruction- it exaggerates tropes that were already in the genre- dark magical girl, coming of age story, etc.
Utena did a MUCH better job of criticizing shoujo tropes (like ACTUAL CRITICISM OF PROBLEMATIC shoujo tropes like the fucked-up dynamics of idealized shoujo romances, or the damsel-in-distress cliche, not just making stuff ~edgier~ and not really criticizing) while having an actual feminist message that was absolutely intended that you cannot miss, and we also know the creators actually kept the female audience in mind AND oh, it actually managed to have canon queer characters and relationships rather than just ~vaguely imply~ so straight audiences could ignore it. A lot of Madoka fans treat Madoka like it’s Utena, but it’s not. Utena is an actual deconstruction, Madoka is largely just a darknedgy take on things.
And it’s not like the magical girl genre didn’t have DARK STUFF in it, it just still managed to be…about empowering girls rather than punishing them. Princess Tutu was dark. Sailor Moon is the codifier for “dark magical girl warrior’ and “magical girl antihero” concepts and the live action serie got VERY heavy. And then people act like Madoka (and Nanoha) are the only magical girl shows with kickass fight scenes (and that’s somehow the measure of their worth) but Precure, aimed for 5 year old girls, can be ridiculously heavy on the action. I’m tired of ppl talking about how Madoka is great bc it’s got all this stuff the genre already had.
And reading spoilers for the movie, all my fears have been confirmed- the relationships and themes that made the anime work have been thrown out the window for cynicism so it’s basically worthless now. And still no canon queerness, ofc.
So yeah, I still enjoy some parts of Madoka, I’m just much less enamored with it now, mostly just in light of getting more into the magical girl genre and learning more about the creator’s true intentions.
I had some suspicions along these lines. Like I had no idea what the creators’ intentions were until now. But the fact it was purportedly trying to deconstruct the magical girl genre and the girls suffered so much… I think there are definitely aspects of the series you could read feminist aspects into for sure. But the whole symbolism of the magical girl —> witch and the magical girls quietly dying while still being girls, and the whole fact you mentioned that it was deconstructed for a male audience…plus everything the creator says is incredibly troubling.
Regardless of a creators intentions, these pieces are meant to stand alone. If you just want to get all pissy about a man being involved in feminist show, then just say that—don’t shit all over a great show.
Those girls are full of hubris, especially Sayaka and Homura. The series does as good a job as Utena does (but does so more subtly and focuses on different aspects of femininity ) of breaking down the genre.
Wtf, you’re pissed off because of girls suffering? People suffer, especially women. And what I think you’re not understanding, is that manipulation is a female sphere of influence. It’s a story about women fighting other women in many ways. The girls might be super cute, but the themes an subtleties of their relationships with each other and with Kyubey are super feminine. And the symbolism of the witches?#puella magi madoka magica
i read your response and recognized the bullshit
you are sexualizing power imbalances, violence, and yes, rape
why do you have a safe word?
why not just stop when someone says “no” or “stop”?
is it because you like to hear those words and continue on?
because you like to pretend they’re not consenting?
congratulations, you’re sexualizing rape
I read your response and recognize that people like you are why women are ashamed to call themselves feminists.
You have no right to judge other people’s private, sexual lives. If someone consents and is enjoying themselves, then they aren’t sexualizing anything, they’re having a good time.
And also, what kind of misguided view of women do you have? Do you think that if there were no men, there wouldn’t be rape, murder, and assault? Since I’m female, am I supposed to spread flowers and glitter and make the world a special, safe place?#BDSM #feminism #fucking social justice bullshit
Bdsm sexualizes violence, and since sexualized violence is the most pressing issue facing women world wide, I am very much against it.
Many bdsm advocates pose bdsm as akin to sexuality, something you are born with and beyond your control. I don’t believe this is true.
If you look around, female sexuality (which is always displayed as heterosexuality) is very much “supposed” to be submissive (and I know not all female bdsm-ers are submissive, but the majority are). Bdsm isn’t subversive, it is very much playing into the dominant narrative of female sexuality — that women exist to please and serve men, and that male violence against women is “sexy” and how sex is supposed to be.
Two quick examples off the top of my head — the violent language surrounding sexuality (pounded her, tore her up) and the accepted “truth” that losing your virginity is, for women, supposed to be painful.
This idea of sexuality is directly responsible for the oppression of women, and bdsm upholds this 100%. And then on top of that, much of bdsm goes even farther, to outright sexualize rape and abuse, and even murder.
Looking at a beaten and battered woman and feeling sexually aroused will never be anything but a sign of sociopathy, and getting a group of these men together and praising them for their “courage” in admitting their true nature is dangerous to women. Getting women who want to be abused and dehumanized (and I view sexual masochism as similar to people who want to cut or otherwise harm themselves — a sign of mental instability/trauma) and introducing them to these men, setting them up and facilitating their abuse, is, obviously harmful.
I do not believe you can get off on harming other people, or the idea of harming other people, and be a good person. The two are mutually exclusive.
As for pairings other than male dom/female sub, I find them wrong, but not near as wrong as male dom/female sub, because those relationships are enforced by our entire society, because those relationships are the most literal manifestation of misogyny and male abuse of women.
So quick run down:
male doms — the absolute worst, deserve slow and painful deaths
female doms — not good
male subs — unhealthy, need to get out of those relationships for their own well being
female subs — unhealthy, have been manipulated into enjoying their own oppression and are facing some severe physiological problems because of that, are being exploited and are in very real danger
Umm, I think that about explains my position, if I wasn’t clear about anything, let me know.
Fuck this shit.
So as a woman, I don’t have the agency to understand whether I’m being oppressed or turned on? According to your view on femininity, maybe we should all be sitting inside quietly knitting because we’re, what, too delicate to handle our shit?
And what sort of deluded view do you have of women anyway? Women can be violent, aggressive, and cruel.
I feel that your views on female sexuality rob women of agency over their own bodies and their own sexual responses.#BDSM #radfem #fuck this shit